Ep 66: 10 Roles to Play with Our Children in Collective Care with Deepa Iyer

Building communities, taking care of our neighbors, and nurturing local mutual aid networks are more important now than ever. But have you ever felt this doubt that says “am I good enough to join those amazing activists? I just snapped and yelled at my toddler.” Or, “what am I gonna bring to the table?” My dear co-conspirators, we hear those doubts loud and clear, don’t we?...especially when we’re not in our bandwidth. And the thing is you already know that what you can bring to our movement spaces is yourself, standing in your full power. 

Instead of anxiously wondering what you’re going to bring to the table, this bonus episode invites you to roll up your sleeves and ask “which role am I going to play to be actively and creatively disruptive to the system?” A weaver? A storyteller? A guide? A builder? Our special guest today shares 10 roles that you, your child, and your family can embody and make concrete differences in your neighborhood. 

[INTRODUCTION]

Sawadee ka, and welcome to the Come Back to Care podcast. A place where we’re re-imagining parenting to be deeply decolonized and intentionally intergenerational. If you’ve been looking for ways to practice social justice in your daily parenting and nurture your child’s development while re-parenting your inner child, I’m so glad you’re here. I am your host, Nat Nadha Vikitsreth, a decolonized and licensed clinical psychotherapist, somatic abolitionist, and founder of Come Back to Care. A dot connector, norm agitator and lover of liberation. In this podcast, we turn down the volume of oppressive social norms and outdated family patterns so that we can hear our inner voice and raise our children by our own values too. We come back home to our body and the goodness within. We come back to our lineages and communities. And we come back to care… together. So come curious and come as you are.

[EPISODE]

Welcome back to Episode 66 of the Come Back to Care Podcast.

Joining you and me today is Deepa Iyer, the strategist and creator behind the Social Change Ecosystem Map and author of a fabulous children’s book, We are the Builders! Come explore ways to make your social justice actions both effective and sustainable as Deepa would put it, especially when you’re raising your child. If that sounds generative to you, here’s my conversation with Deepa Iyer. 

[INTERVIEW]

Nat Vikitsreth: Welcome Deepa to our Come Back to Care Podcast.

Deepa Iyer: I'm so happy to be here. Thank you, Nat.

Nat Vikitsreth: And I'm so happy that you're here too. Our listeners and I, are familiar with your work. We covered your work in episode 45, Find Your Roles in Liberation, an antidote to cynicism and despair. So I wanna start off by asking you to speak directly to our listeners who are parent activists, who are also social justice curious families, who are so committed to social change and at the same time, so tired.

Deepa Iyer: Yeah, I want to acknowledge and validate the exhaustion and how hard it is right now to be both a parent and give to the world around us. I'm also a parent of a teenager. And I think that what I would say is that it is actually really important to acknowledge the exhaustion or overwhelm that we might be feeling from day to day or hour to hour right now as we're moving through really uncertain times as our communities, our families are under attack in many different ways. And it's natural to experience these kinds of see-saws of outrage and numbness.

And so I think it's really important to acknowledge and hold space for ourselves and for each other. And I think that it is also important that we then respond to that in ways that are effective and sustainable. And that could be identifying the roles that we feel equipped to play. That could mean knowing ourselves well enough to take breaks and step away. That could mean setting some boundaries. But what's most important, I think, is that we still engage in some way in this time and in this moment, because there's also this tendency to constrict and to become numb, to stop reading, learning, engaging. And I think it's really important that we actually try to hold ourselves to some level of activity and engagement, whatever that can look like for us, depending on our role and our boundaries and our capacity.

Nat Vikitsreth: It is the yes and in your framework.

Deepa Iyer: I love that. Yeah.

Nat Vikitsreth: It lands so much with what we do at Come Back to Care. Yes, we feel our feelings and we find our role and we mobilize and we engage.

Deepa Iyer: Yeah, I love that.

Nat Vikitsreth: Yes, and this conversation is particularly so important in this moment, if I can echo what you've just said, where the uncertainty is so high and it's so human of us to look outside, to see what other people are doing and not doing, or grasping onto roadmaps, blueprints. And I think this moment calls for something different for us to reimagine our organizing. And your framework offers us 10 choices of how we can show up and engage. Instead of looking outside, your framework asks us to look within and bring our whole selves to the work.

Deepa Iyer: Yeah, I think that I'm so glad that the framework is helpful. And I do often think about this framework as a way to do three things. One is to, as you said so well, become self-aware. “What are my skills, my strengths, my lived experiences, my knowledge?” And... to set a line with one of these 10 roles. And then the second inquiry is, “When I play this role, what am I in service to? What are the values that I care about? What are the goals that I am also engaging in with others? What is the organization that I'm connected to or the community collective?” So that question of “What is my role in service to changing?” And then the third inquiry is, “who do I do this with?” Because as you said, we can't do this alone, right? We need to be in community with others. So who is part of my ecosystem and how do I support folks and what kind of supports do I need? And so I think those three inquiries can really help us to have a roadmap to move through this time of unprecedented uncertainty and crisis.

Nat Vikitsreth: Yes, yes, yes, and yes, there's no individualism. And it's so clear that you're asking us to bring our personal power and use it for collective care.

And as a parent, Deepa, I wonder what your hopes are for parents practicing these roles. What are your hopes that their children are witnessing and learning about from seeing their parents?

Deepa Iyer: Yeah, I mean, I think that as parents, tend to just, well, either naturally or we're forced to play the role of the caregiver, which is one of the 10 roles in the framework. And being a caregiver is really a way in which we're paying attention to what others might need. And how we can respond to those needs in ways that make sense for us too, right? That we're not going far out of scope of what we're able to give to others. And I think for parents, it's often that we're playing so many of these roles in any given time. We're caregivers to the young people in our lives, but we might also be playing many other roles, right?

We might be disruptors or frontline responders in terms of our activism. And often there can be a little bit of a disconnect of like, I'm a caregiver at home and I'm a frontline responder in community. And I think it's important to recognize when we are facing those disconnects and also recognizing when we're leaning too far into any of these roles to the point that they become unsustainable. And I think caregiver, the role of the caregiver is one where I hear a lot of people often say, I'm giving too much or I'm giving in every aspect of my life. And I think for parents, that's definitely the case. So I would say that it's vital at this time to pay attention to what other roles am I playing beyond the caregiver.

When I play these multiple roles, what is the impact on the way that I'm showing up? And where do I need to recalibrate as needed? And then to your other point around, you know, children witnessing us, I think that's such a great question because I feel that young people who are aware of what's going on right now are looking for guides and are looking for conversations and are looking for possibilities and empowerment. And so it's not to say that we know exactly what should be done or that we have the right answers all the time. But I think it's to be clear and open about, you know, this is a really tough time. I'm feeling it.

You might be feeling it in different ways because I'm feeling it in my energy is in that space. That's going to have an impact on you, our home, our family. And how do we talk about that? And also, how do we talk about what is happening around us? Right? How do we talk about the attacks on immigrants or trans community members? How do we talk about the fact that our government is being dismantled and weaponized in different ways. How do we have these conversations with young people in ways that they can understand, that they don't get overwhelmed and anxious about, and also offer them some level of personal experience, some role modeling, some guidance? So I would say that in this time for parents to think about not just being caregivers, but also being guides which is another role in the framework when it comes to the young people in our lives.

Nat Vikitsreth: And how our children get to witness us exercising agency. That we can shift amongst these 10 roles and shape change with our co-conspirators in the community. That we're no longer defined by just one role. That I'm a caregiver, that I'm a mother, that I'm a father. But we can be all of it.

Deepa Iyer: Yeah. And I think that children really resonate with not just seeing their parents playing these roles, but recognizing that they too can take on these roles in their lives. And I've definitely seen this with young people of all ages, even, you know, very young children in like second grade, you know, resonating with roles to older children and young people who understand the political situation in a much different way. And I think that they appreciate having some language and identifying themselves in these ways and also having, as you said, agency.

Nat Vikitsreth: Yes, because the conversations in the home a lot of times it goes like, you know, this community is being hurt or this community is being targeted. And there's so much pain around that. the conversation goes like either the silver lining side where, but it's all going to be OK. Or, we're struggling and we're fighting. And sometimes we miss the specificity of, but look at these people who are the frontline responders, who are the experimenters, who are the healers and storytellers and so on for children to really see, like you said, the possibilities of how we can creatively disrupt.

Deepa Iyer: Right. Yeah, I love that. I think you're absolutely right. oftentimes, I appreciate what you said about, you know, when we have these conversations at home, they often do happen, they often do occur in like those kinds of binaries where we're like, it's, it's really awful, and you should know about it. And then we're like, but it's okay. It's gonna be all right, because we want to also not have our young people spiral into anxiety, right? And so what is the kind of the middle ground in having this conversation where we don't shy away from the reality of what we want to share? Again, age appropriate, obviously, in age appropriate ways. And at the same time, we also don't want to say and sugarcoat it to saying, it'll all work itself out.

It works itself out because there usually are ecosystems of people and organizations and networks and, you know, leaders that are coming together to take on different roles and engage in different actions in service to our broader values of humanity and justice and solidarity. And so I think it's important to know that it doesn't just work itself out, right, that it takes a lot of time and effort, often invisible labor, incremental effort that then pushes, you know, that arc, that pendulum into the direction where we know we need to head.

Nat Vikitsreth: Incremental, community-based, that's our all essential ingredients. And in our community, what we practice is that having that honest conversation with our children without overwhelming them. And one way is to point out to the solutions that are being co-created, even though it doesn't solve the problem right away. But look at these roles, these people, aunties and uncles and uncles in the community who are just embodying the solutions, right? That they're playing an active part and we're not just passive victims. And when children see that, they are often feel energized by change.

Deepa Iyer: I absolutely think so. And I think that they feel empowered then to know that they too can engage and they don't need to be passive recipients of all of this.

Nat Vikitsreth: Yes. And for our newer listeners who are not familiar with your social change ecosystem map and your beautiful book, We Are the Builders, would you mind giving us a quick rundown, just the titles of the 10 roles, because the descriptions in the book, We Are the Builders, is so catchy and interactive and beautiful. I want them to go buy the books and check it out. But what are the 10 roles?

Deepa Iyer: Yes, so the 10 roles which can be played by individuals and by organizations include weavers, experimenters, frontline responders, visionaries, builders, caregivers, disruptors, healers, storytellers, and guides. And you mentioned the children's book called We Are the Builders.

Nat Vikitsreth: Wonderful.

Deepa Iyer: And I also have an adult, like a workbook for adults called Social Change Now, a guide for reflection and connection. So it's possible to kind of come to this depending on, you know, the age and experience that you're at.

Nat Vikitsreth: I will link everything in the transcript and the show notes for everybody. For your own family unit, Deepa. I know you said your son's a teenager. I'd come back to care. Most of our children are from zero to eight, but our grownups are also children and vice versa too. I wonder if you don't mind sharing what the roles are in your own family unit, your own role as a mother, perhaps your son's roles and other family members.

Deepa Iyer: Yeah, I think that you mentioned earlier that roles can shift and I think that's vital that we should not be stagnant in terms of playing these different roles. Like we should really think about how the context around us or our own capacity can shape and shift the roles that we play. So right now I think that I... as a parent tend to be a caregiver, try to be a caregiver and a guide, but also in playing the role of a frontline responder and a storyteller. So to support different organizations around the country, make sense of what is happening right now and to uplift different stories of resilience and solidarity as well. So I think those are the roles that I'm playing. And my son is, you he's 14 and I see different sides of him in terms of these roles, but I see him oftentimes playing the role of a weaver because he's really good at connecting different issues together and saying, you you know, this happened to X community, but that's like very similar to what's happening in another community. So I think he's developing that part of who he is in finding the through lines and the connections between people and issues and the like.

And then I do have a lot of caregivers in my life in terms of my immediate family, which is really important because if you are a caregiver yourself, you really need to also have other caregivers that you can lean on, right? Because that's such an important role when you're caregiving to receive support and to receive acknowledgement and connection from others. But I think that those are kind of the ones that I would lean into right now in my ecosystem.

Nat Vikitsreth: Yes, we occupy so many different roles and I feel like the weaver, the role that your son is playing right now is so important for us to practice solidarity when we can see the through lines. Yes. And to your point that roles change. Your social justice ecosystem map was born in 2017, is that correct?

Deepa Iyer: Yes. Absolutely.

Nat Vikitsreth: And now it's 2025, which role that you play get the most glow up? Meaning that, yeah.

Deepa Iyer: I don't know if it's a glow. well, it's, it's something that I've been reflecting on a lot actually, because, the framework was something that I developed during the first Trump administration. And now we are at the second. And I think that to be quite honest, I have played, I seem to be playing similar roles, but in boundary ways, if that makes sense.

So I think that even in that time, I was a frontline responder and a guide and a storyteller. And I think I'm still actually playing those roles now. I think the difference for me is the extent to which I'm playing those roles. I think for frontline responders in particular, it's really important to be able to set boundaries and to understand the toll of crisis response and to be aware of it. And I think for me, what I learned from like doing that, the first go around is that I didn't at that point have a lot of boundaries and I didn't actually think too much about the impact on me. And I think in the ensuing years, I've become really clear about that with myself and with... many of the healers in my life. And so this time around, even though I'm still playing the same role, I am coming to it with a really clear sense of what are my boundaries around crisis response. Like how far can I go? What kinds of supports do I need to play that role effectively, whether that's like other team members or other community members. And what will I say no to? And so I think that I have a lot more understanding of myself because I have played that role so many times before that I can come to it and approach it in a more sustainable manner now.

Nat Vikitsreth: And you mentioned the word sustainability so many times and right and acknowledging what you can offer and when to step back and having that boundary is so key, Deepa. Yes, so important.

Deepa Iyer: Yeah, I think it's like the hardest thing though. I I think that I often talk about this framework through the standpoint of two lenses, effectiveness and sustainability. And I do that because, and I think they're interrelated. Like when we feel supported and sustained, we can be more effective, right? And vice versa. And so that's why I think it's vital to know as we are playing these roles to be intentional. What will it take for me to be effective in this? Often that means for most of us, it means I need support, right?

Like no one person can play this, any of these roles and say, yeah, I did that by myself and whatever. So for example, the role of the visionary really needs the support and teamwork of builders and experimenters, because visionaries are the ones who see the North Star and they can be really inspiring, but they're not always the ones who can say, are the nuts and bolts to get to my North Star vision. so builders create the scaffolding between our reality and the North Star. Experimenters are trying out and piloting different ways to reach that vision. And so it's really important to know, who do I need in order to play this role effectively? And then sustainably is asking ourselves, like, what's the toll of playing this role day in and day out? Even asking guides and healers that are in our ecosystem, how do you see me show up? What would you suggest that I do? And that is different for everyone, obviously, but it's really important. And in my adult space, workbook, have a whole chapter on sustainability and how we work out sort of a plan for ourselves when we play each of these roles that's focused on understanding our boundaries and the impact that playing these roles might have on us psychically, spiritually, physically, and emotionally.

Nat Vikitsreth: Effectiveness and sustainability, right? And that we can't do this by ourselves on the couch. We need support. Yeah, and in this climate that we're in right now, there's so much policing within our own community of people who are organizers, where you need to say these things, you gotta do these things, you gotta show up at these town halls and meetings, otherwise you're not doing enough. And to your point that, well, in my circle, I need a healer. I need a visionary. I need a builder. And we need different roles to create change together. And I think the map outlines that so beautifully.

Deepa Iyer: Exactly. Yeah. I'm so glad to hear that. I think it's one tool of so many tools and resources that are out there in the world. And what I have often heard from people is that it's a really accessible entry point for folks. And it's very assets based, so folks relate to it. Rather than saying, like, what are all the issues that we need to solve? We start by saying, what is it that I have to give? And then we can go to the different issues as well.

Nat Vikitsreth: That was exactly Deepa, the first time that I looked at your map and I was so happy. I cried because yes, yes, because it's so actionable and flexible, not prescriptive. And definitely to your point that it's about what do I have to give? It's not about what am I good at? It's not about competency or merit, but it's like, what do I have and how do I practice love?

Deepa Iyer: Yeah, and it is very flexible or nimble, know, people, it's not prescriptive, you're right. I think that I really want people to like, utilize it in ways that make sense for themselves and their communities and not feel as though they have to do X, Y or Z. To me, it's all about what we said at the beginning, which is like, how do I take what I know about myself and how I feel about certain issues in the world to be of service to them, right? And so I'm really excited that folks often use it as a tool for self-awareness and as an activation for mobilizing, right? And doing something in community.

Nat Vikitsreth: Yes, and for our little friends, our children, we're often talking about, you are the helper. Like in the classroom, you're the teacher's assistant, you're the helper. At home, we say similar things. And these 10 roles also give our children the agency and the language where today I want to be a storyteller, right? Or something like that. I wonder if there are examples that you've seen in your practice.

Deepa Iyer: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I've been really fortunate to be able to connect with a lot of little children over the past four to five months since the book has been out, since We Are the Builders came out. And I have learned so much from them, you know, and one of the things I've learned, and I was nervous about this, because these are not words, as you say, that we use with children, right?

Like we do say, being a helper, but we don't often talk to our children in words like, you're a visionary or, you know, that sounds like something that a storyteller would say. So I was nervous about whether or not the roles would resonate and the meanings would resonate with children, but I've found that they immediately get it. And I think that, you know, the book is, written and illustrated beautifully by, it's illustrated by Romina Golota, and you know the illustrations and hopefully the verse that I've written convey to children what the meanings of these words are, right? And so they see how community, on this community day, which is kind of the scene that this book takes place in, how grownups and children are coming together to play these different roles to support the community around them.

And so I found that children very quickly resonate with these roles and will put their hands up when I say, who here wants to join the builders or who here wants to join the visionaries? Hands will immediately go up. And I've also tested that to say, well, what does that mean? Why do you say that? And so children have responded and this is like, second graders, especially, I feel connect with this book. And the responses I've gotten have been so powerful. I had a child who is Latina say to me that she's a guide because her parents don't speak English well and she supports them in understanding different types of situations or forms where language access is a barrier, right? And that idea that she is a guide, that she can kind of help them navigate the world around them, that knowledge, right, is so powerful because she hopefully can take that and use it in other situations as well. I've also heard from children who very naturally lean into the role of being a visionary, which is hard for us as adults. Many of us feel a sense of imposter syndrome with that role, or we don't want to claim it, but children very naturally see themselves that way. And I've worked with some older children who when I've said like, how would you kind of show us what a visionary is, right? We'll then like draw or use words to really paint a picture of what a better world could look like.

And I think another role that comes up often is the role of the experimenter, which is not surprising, I guess, with younger children and this kind of tendency to want to solve problems, being creative, coming up with their own ideas, right? Not feeling like things are impossible or that things are stuck or that we have to do things in the same way over and over, which is what often infuses a lot of our institutions and organizations and culture. And so those three roles are ones that I've definitely seen a lot of synergy and excitement around and then the caregiver, know, like children will say like When my younger sibling is crying I will ask Is there anything I can do or what do you need? Right? Like even seeing that that is valuable and it is actually worthy right valuable and important to know that saying something like that to someone who is afraid or in pain or hurt is so powerful and so valuable.

Nat Vikitsreth: It is. It is. We often think that we need to empower our children and then come back to care. We believe that children have so much to teach us and we just offer them the language, these 10 roles for them to identify their own gifts. Exactly. And get out of the way. Yes. And when they can identify their own gifts, they go forth and practice. And yeah.

Deepa Iyer: And then get out of the way. And I think also, like, I think that this framework can be used to help children make sense of the world around them, as we said earlier, as well. So, you know, there's some amazing, you know, educators out there who are using this framework, for example, to recently when we observed Martin Luther King Jr.'s birthday, many classrooms used this framework to identify the different roles that Dr. King played and how. And also to recognize that he did not work by himself, that he was also part of an ecosystem. And so what were the roles of the people around him, right? Maybe people that we don't know their names or that were not as prominent as he was, but that were absolutely vital to understanding why the civil rights movement was successful in so many ways in the 60s. And so I think it can be a teaching tool. It can be a way to, as you said earlier, empower and give children language and words. And then also, as you said, for them to like naturally identify their gifts and their skills.

Nat Vikitsreth: Yes. And in the beginning, you talked about a binary of roles in caregivers, like either we help a lot or we get burnt out. And this example that you just shared made me think of getting out of the binary when we talk about children, whether they are either a leader or a follower, a leader or a helper, and there are like 10 options that they can choose. Yes.

Deepa Iyer: Yeah. Yeah. And they can be more than one, of course.

Nat Vikitsreth: Absolutely. And the roles change, right? And without giving spoilers to the book, it's so interactive. There's some breathing section that you can do with the child that you're reading with, and there's some like rhythm to it. The illustration is beautiful. I absolutely loved it. And there's one phrase that Ramla the character in the book said. And Ramla embodied the role of the guide. And this sentence is, quote, of the different roles to play, which one feels like you today? And to me, that is my morning question to myself.

Deepa Iyer: Nat, I love that.

Nat Vikitsreth: Yes, it helped me get out of my bed, Deepa. Yes, yes, and go play the role. And I want to talk about sustainability for a second, especially for the role of a caregiver. Because a lot of times when we're tired, we're not in our bandwidth anymore, we tend to spiral. And then we don't know which role we want to play because we're so tired. And then we go scroll on social media instead, right? Which is not helping. So if there's a pep talk, Deepa, that you might wanna share with caregivers or any other roles to go lay down for a second, recharge, rest.

Deepa Iyer: Right, gosh. Yeah, I mean, that's actually a great one for caregivers, actually. Yeah, I think for caregivers, it's really important to understand when our own cup is overflowing and when it is completely empty and to recognize the in-between, right? Because caregivers often it feels like the cup is always like going to be generative and that's not the case for any of us. So going back to sustainability, I think for caregivers the pep talk that I would give is listen to your body, rest, and set boundaries.

Nat Vikitsreth: So beautiful. Yes. It's so important because, you know, at Come Back to Care, we often talk about we do this hokey pokey dance where we put our whole selves into the work. And when our cup is about to be dry, we take our whole selves out to recharge. Yes. Whether that's a breath or an afternoon to make a nourishing meal. And when we unplug or step back, take our whole self out. play tag with our co-conspirator. Like, hey, I'm gonna go take a break. Can you go to this town hall meeting? Right? Yeah. So many roles. Yes. As we're coming to a close, Deepa, I wonder if there are any things that you wanna share with our listeners.

Deepa Iyer: I love that. That's a great example. I think that I would say at this time when it is challenging for so many of us, the most important thing is to really figure out how we stay connected to each other. And I can't stress that enough, know, whatever that looks like, and it's different for each of us.

But I feel often that in our country right now, it feels like there's so much constriction and isolation. know, like we're going to pull out of this treaty that could help the climate, or we're going to dismantle federal agencies that are vital for people to get basic benefits and civil rights. At a time when there's like dismantlement, constriction, and pullback, I think we have to fight against that as people and institutions, right? And we have to find ways to connect and expand and to really push against that culture and that messaging that we're getting. And that to me, the through line to do that is to be in community, is to create more opportunities for us to listen to each other, to be in community with each other, and to do that in different ways. Like it could be something like, you know, it doesn't always have to be the role of the disruptor to be out on the streets in direct actions, right?

It could be, and I've seen some of these things recently, an organization that I am connected to in where I live is holding kind of healing sessions where people in community can just come and breathe together, right? Where there are people saying, you know, I'm going to open up my dinner table and invite folks in like once every other week or creating actual opportunities where people can come in to visit organizations like open houses, where you learn what your local immigrant-serving organization is doing. So the more that we can actually create those nodes of connection during a time when we are getting the message of isolation, individualism, erasure and constriction, if we can push against that, think it's like extremely important and vital in creating, again, a nurturing ecosystem. So more than ever, I think we need to lean into ecosystems and solidarity and nodes of connection right now.

Nat Vikitsreth: They can't take our connections away.

Deepa Iyer: No. That is our agency.

Nat Vikitsreth: And our children are watching how we show up for one another and that our love for our neighbor will always be greater than punishment and criminalization and policing.

Deepa Iyer: Absolutely. I totally agree with you. think that our children are not just watching, but they need us to model different ways of behavior and connection and action right now. And I say that also because they are going to inherit a lot of this. This is not going to be something that like, it's not a light switch that turns on and off every time there's like a new administration. These are long-term struggles and our children will be part of tending to those struggles too when they come of age in the world. And so it is really important that we model and that we communicate and that we're, you as you said, that we're honest with them too. And I also want to say it's not easy. Like this is a daily, you know, many times a day, right? Especially for those of us who are parents, where we have to like ask ourselves, okay, how do I balance like all of this right now? So none of it is easy. And I think being aware of that and being kind to ourselves and giving ourselves grace rather than expecting a lot from ourselves or punishing ourselves. Finding that way to give grace is also important right now.

Nat Vikitsreth: Absolutely. Wow, that is such a beautiful place to close, Deepa. I'm so grateful for your work, for your voice, for your power in this world. Thank you so much for being here.

Deepa Iyer: I appreciate you so much, Nat, and really want to thank you and the entire community for having these conversations and for uplifting some of the ways in which through books and frameworks and ideas we can pass on a lot of that agency and empowerment to children. So really appreciate you doing this work.

[CLOSING]

Alright, my dear co-conspirator, are you feeling words like possibility, creativity, and hope taking concrete shapes with Deepa’s work? I certainly do. To learn more about Deepa’s work and various books, please visit the episode show notes. 

At the end of the day, playing these roles is one powerful way to meet this moment with all that you got…most of the time. What a beautiful way to offer yourself back to the world as a gift. There’s no better way to wrap up this episode than Rumla’s wise words in We are the Builders!: “of the different roles to play, which one feels like you today?”

If this episode fills your heart cup and you have the bandwidth to reciprocate, I have 2 invitations:

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As always, in solidarity and sass. Until next time, please take care.