Episode 7: How Tori Heals Her Inner Child While Raising Her Toddler
[INTRODUCTION]
[00:00:02] NV: Sawasdee ka and welcome to the Come Back to Care podcast. I am your host, Nat Nadha Vikitsreth, a decolonized and licensed clinical psychotherapist, somatic and social justice practitioner, and founder of Come Back to Care. Adopt connector, norm agitator, and lover of liberation.
If you're on a journey to transform your daily parenting into a social justice practice that nurtures your child's development and promotes intergenerational family healing, I am so glad that you're here. On this podcast, we explore how social justice, child development science, parenting, and family systems intersect with one another. If you've been looking for ways to align your parenting with a social justice values, you're in the right place. Together, we find our way back to our true home. We come back home to our body and the goodness within. We come back to our lineage and come back to care together. So come curious, and come as you are. Let's move at the speed of care. And let's do this.
[EPISODE]
[00:01:27] NV: Welcome to the seventh episode of the Come Back to Care Podcast. I'm so excited to try something a little different today. In this episode, you'll hear a conversation that I had with an amazing, amazing in, out, and through program graduate, Tori. My hope for this episode is to show you that when parents have safe enough and strong enough social support, they have more bandwidth to make sense of their upbringing, and do the healing work that they need. And when they can make sense and understand their past, they can show up as the parent they know they can be, most of the time. I've witnessed again and again, that every parent, no matter their culture, race, class, gender and ability is capable of showing up as the parent they want to be. But getting there, getting to that place is hard sometimes, and the journey is so much more joyful when you have the support you need to be accountable and to keep practicing.
Bell Hooks wrote in All About Love that rarely, if ever, are any of us healed in isolation. Healing is an act of communion. I hope Tori's story is a case in point for that. If you're new to this podcast, warmest welcome to you. The in, out, and through program is an online space where social justice curious and conscious parents of young children come together to unlearn outdated family patterns and unsubscribe from oppressive social norms, so that they can parent their children for social change, reparent their inner child, and do the healing work their ancestors could not. It's inner child work meets internalized oppression work through self-reflection, journaling, and body-based practice done in a community.
Tori was so kind to chat with me about her experience in the program. And you know me by now, it's the most exquisite honor for me to hold space for parents to do the healing work that they need, to witness their strengths and struggles, and to reflect back their resilience and messy beauty. It's really a treat for me to share Tori’s story with you today. Tori and Chris are raising their two-year-old daughter, Joy, while navigating the effects of their inner child wounds. Through body-based practices, Tori noticed not just what her daughter does to trigger her inner child wounds, but also how she felt and what she felt unfolding in her body when her daughter pushed her buttons.
With this awareness, Tori, was able to intentionally respond to Joy's behavior instead of reacting to it based on our past inner child wounds. I think this is so key because when we're holding our parenting triggers with this kind of understanding and compassion, we can love our children from our scar and not from our wounds. You'll hear Tori's understanding of her parenting triggers and her inner child wounds goes deeper than knowing them in her mind at the cognitive level. Instead, she really understands them at the somatic, or the body-based level. Through each week's body-based exploration, Tori unpacked how her body reacts to her past inner child wounds, so that she can pause, re-center her nervous system, and make a conscious choice from moment to moment of how to respond to her daughter.
You also hear Tori sharing a bit about what it was like for her to join the program with her husband, Chris. It was so heartwarming for me to see Tori and Chris came to understand each other's upbringing and social conditioning, to see how they eat discovered new ways to communicate and support each other and deepen their co-parenting game. Let's meet Tori, shall we?
[INTERVIEW]
[00:06:05] NV: Hi, Tori.
[00:06:06] TG: Hi, Nat.
[00:06:08] NV: So good to see you.
[00:06:11] TG: Always good to see you.
[00:06:12] NV: My heart is happy, and thank you for sharing your experiences as you went through the program with a lot of parents who are watching this video. I'm so glad.
[00:06:22] TG: It's my pleasure.
[00:06:23] NV: Well, let's get started. Let's start with the introduction. Please share a little bit about who you are, where you are at, in your family building journey?
[00:06:35] TG: Well, my name is Torie Grant. I am the mother to a little girl we turned to in August. White, a full-time worker. So, I think, I'm in this part of the journey where perhaps this part never ends, but just balancing a lot of different identities. I think the mothering or the parenting identity is a really big one for me. I'm in a new place after having gone through this class of knowing that it's absolutely okay to nourish various parts of our identities and also to prioritize like the thoughtful part of parenting, where I think I was in a bit of a rote, maybe a rote parenting space with COVID and all kinds of things that we're experiencing as a people. So, I am on my journey.
[00:07:27] NV: You are. I am honored to be on that journey with you, Tori. Thank you. And I love that your two-year-old always joins our Wednesday evening class. She's our guest appearance superstar.
[00:07:42] TG: I appreciated that so much. Other members in the group, had other arrangements or children of different ages where their children weren't as present. I felt like everybody really understood and you really understood that joy was going to be a little busy body in the background, and that we were – I felt very trusted that you knew I was as present as I could be. Knowing I had few adults attend to her, allowing her to be there and welcoming her in.
[00:08:13] NV: Tori, I mean life and juggling all the hats. It's so real. She delights and lights up the room for us. So, at the time of joining the program, Tori, what were some of the things that you wanted to change in your parenting or your reparenting the inner child?
[00:08:35] TG: Yes, I think I have a lot of healing to do from certain parts of my own childhood. I feel like while there were so many beautiful adaptive moments, the maladaptive moments of my childhood tend to shine brighter. I felt very worried about bringing those things into my parenting in such a way that I think it overshadowed all of the adaptive experiences that I've had. And also, sort of to holding like this balanced awareness that both are hard things and our not so bad things can exist together. I was becoming a bit fixated as a parent before joining the class.
[00:09:18] NV: Got it. Yeah, you're right. Those little adaptive things are so loud, sometimes.
[00:09:26] TG: Loud is a great word.
[00:09:28] NV: Yeah. So, loud and the adaptive things that you've worked so hard on gets overshadowed. You speak a little bit more about what got in the way when you're trying to shift your attention or focus on to the adaptive ones.
[00:09:44] TG: I think my own habits, and working in the field of infant mental health, in some ways has been a barrier, because I think I find myself perhaps pontificating or Maybe even shaming myself or my parenting partner when we get it wrong, because it's supposed to be something I know, I'm supposed to know how to do this because of the field that I work in. I think that there's a lack of self-compassion, and maybe a lack of knowing that parenting is so much more about figuring it out than it is about knowing what you're doing, that then I would sort of spiral into this place of, I'm going to punish everyone around not it right. It might be being shaming to myself and others.
[00:10:36] NV: Yes, lots of barriers and pressure. Yes. If your parenting journey were to be without those barriers, what would that mean for you to be a decolonized, embodied and intergenerational parent?
[00:10:53] TG: It would be so much more about, like being much more organic, not having to plan every single thing. Allowing trusting relationships, trusting that I'm trusted, and that I trust others, including my child, including my partner, enough that we can like really make hard mistakes. We can really have hard moments. We can say something painful, we can say something ridiculous, and know that reparative process is there. I think similarly, looking back on which I took so deeply from the course, applying that same thing to my own parents, to my sister, to my ancestors, to my grandma was still alive, in the things that I feel like, “Oh, if they would have done this differently, I could do better for my child.” And knowing that we are all somebody’s child, and we're all people trying to navigate various identities. If I could offer that same grace to them that I'm wishing or in my present little family, there'd be so much more peace.
[00:12:09] NV: Yes. That's the intergenerational family work, right there, Tori. Thank you for sharing that piece. In with the program, we do a lot of self-reflection, storytelling or journaling, and the body-based practice in the community, in, out and through. I wonder if you can speak a little bit more about these three components, and how they have been supportive of you to change your daily parenting?
[00:12:39] TG: Yeah, in a lot of ways, this part of the program has been supportive to me. Again, I found myself with first – being a bit hard on myself, because I'm supposed to know something about physiology, I'm supposed to know something about brain development. And I admit that in 35 years, it did not click for me until this moment, that I have control over my own nervous system, beyond just grounding or take a breath. Or it can be more somatic than that, when you can help that little person inside of you, when I can help little Tori know, this is like a typical human response. This is the way you're used to protecting yourself. However, it's not the only way. I think in the past, for me, like mindful type practices have always been really surface level, or perhaps I've been faking my way through them, to kind of fit in with what everyone around me seems to say is working. But when I couldn't believe it, that that little person has some control in there. I have been able to truly look at conflict and dangerous moment, thinking I'm going to use a big word, dangerous, dangerous moments in a different way, which is life changing to me.
[00:13:59] NV: Wow, I felt that, Tori. That landed for me. Thank you for sharing that piece. So, the body-based practices seem to have some significant impression on you.
[00:14:12] TG: Yes, and different. Because I've been exposed to body-based practices before, but not like this, and I think not in – you’ve had such a way of building group cohesion and trust from the beginning. I think in order for someone to really let their body do their body stuff in a group, there has to be some level of like safety and trust. Otherwise, some of us, some of us who would have a harder time with these things would be faking it or just trying to get through the moment. And so, that was really where it's like journaling, which was also a really important part of this class, is something I'm just kind of more used to and more comfortable with. So, I was able to just kind of do that. But really taking a look at my responses, and realizing I can change my response is not an experience I've ever had in my life before this.
[00:15:13] NV: Thank you, Tori. If you have any example that you can think of, in terms of your body based awareness and practice that shows up day to day with your parenting with Joy.
[00:15:28] TG: I am a person who likes to be in control, hopefully, because I've felt out of control in lots of aspects of my life. So, having a spirited two-year-old, she also really needs to be – I don't even want to say in control, but she needs to know that she's autonomous, and that she has control over her body. And so, one of the ways that's showing up right now is that she's taking off her clothes, and she calls it playing Nikki baby. It's very good. But she does like, pee all over the place. Just being it all over the furniture.
So, I do feel this urge, like, we need to at least put a diaper on. In the past, it would have been clear to me, “No, she just has to wear a diaper. We don't have any options here.” And that was more about my own dysregulation and not considering other perspectives and other options. And so, because I'm sweating, because my heart's beating fast, because I'm just done with the moment. If I can just kind of say like to myself, there's something really symbolic for her about being naked. This is also a lesson in like consent, and her deciding what touches her body, and when you have a spot that if she pees on the carpet fine, like whatever. I can really slow myself down, and then it doesn't mean she can just do whatever she wants. But I have a different perspective on what is a nonnegotiable and what is negotiable, and is going to have benefits in the future.
[00:17:18] NV: Wow. Tori, it seems like you've decided intentionally to meet her where she's at, and you have that awareness and energy and bandwidth to do that by connecting the dots to see where the patterns of your discomfort came from.
[00:17:35] TG: Exactly, yeah. In my head, six, seven weeks ago, being naked and touching the stove, we're like, equally problematic. Now, I understand something different about just my triggers, that I don't have to look at everything that bugs me is dangerous.
[00:17:59] NV: Wow, Tori. Is it important? I hear a lot of parents asking, I just want to focus on sleep strategy. Tracking the feeding, which I love that too. That's like the practical part of parenting. But what you're doing is something different.
[00:18:19] TG: Yes. I don't know how to articulate the difference, but it's different.
[00:18:26] NV: Right. And can we do both pieces without just shifting on the focus on one thing over the other, because I think both pieces are important.
[00:18:39] TG: I might have a day where I can't tolerate Nikki baby in bed, because I'm back in that old space. Fine, but now I see, I can enter these moments in our relationship differently. Even if I miss it sometimes, like, there's possibilities that I didn't even really realize, if that makes any sense.
[00:19:02] NV: Yes, Tori. If I can ask a little bit more, when, on those days when you go back to your old patterns or old space, what do you use in terms of body based or self-reflection to shift?
[00:19:17] TG: It's hard because, if I'm too far dysregulated, I lose that awareness. But like if I can start of catch it, and I wish I could completely do it alone. I think my husband helps me notice this too. I think he participated in the class too and I think we both had tremendous shifts, and I think he can see when I am inching toward rigidity and kind of – we’re still negotiating how we communicate this to each other. Do you need to just kind of like leave and let it settle? I'm still working on discovering those or not discovering, but noticing my cues for when I'm getting beyond, when I can bring back myself back. And so, he's able to help me with that. I'm saying too much. But what you asked me was what helps me bring me back. So, in the moments when I can access it, it's so like, internal self-talk for me. This is not – reacting this way is not your only option. I see some version of that to myself.
[00:20:40] NV: You did. Yeah, and you brought up such a beautiful point, Tori, that this work, it's not meant to be done in an individualistic fashion, right? That's why we have a group and you have Chris, who can coregulate with you and like, bring that self-reflection in like, “Hey, do you need a moment?”
[00:21:02] TG: Yeah, and my colonized self, came out. I almost felt like I had to defend that I couldn't, or explain why I can't do it myself. You're right. So much of what we've discussed is the village and having someone who can kind of come in to help us in our hard moments. And that's what we want for our little ones too. It's what we do for them.
[00:21:27] NV: That's my hope. Absolutely. And we do both, right Tori? We have been talking about the intergenerational family, wellness. And then we also pair that with internalized oppression, talking about systemic oppression, and all of that. How's that for you to put both pieces together?
[00:21:52] TG: Well, amazing and hard. Again, like the way that this course was set up, and those that were in our cohort, it was really like a safe place to explore these really, really hard concepts. Some of us have had the role of oppressors, some in the group have been oppressed, some we have an intersectionality of both and to just trust each other with exploring those things was just an amazing opportunity. And I think that, that's also part of the shift for me is like, I'm so used to playing the role of the oppressor by pontificating the things I think, I know, to my husband, to others who play a caregiving role in my child's life when I think that, you know, maybe there's racist or sexist or other things kind of coming out or being demonstrated, and this showed me another way.
[00:22:52] NV: Yes, it's another area that we both ended. It's really hard, Tori, and it is a lifelong practice. Well, if you don't mind speaking to the journal a little bit, that's part of our journaling, storytelling, and it's right up your alley.
[00:23:10] TG: Yes. Something I really appreciate about the clan class was the balancing of some didactic content, group processing, and then individual, both trying body-based things and then being able to journal. It's on all the different ways that many of us are able to integrate things. So, I'm a person who likes to write. I told you before that, I write poetry. That's how I tend to journal kind of in the form of poetry. There was something really valuable about not just journaling, and a moment in time that's convenient for me, or that I made – I was really challenged to think about very specific prompts, in a specific space, with specific people, and they don't know what that means. But I felt like a different level of thoughtfulness but like struggling too. But struggling in a productive way.
[00:24:17] NV: Yeah. Struggling together, like together in solidarity. I would give it a little bit different texture to it, I think.
[00:24:28] TG: A different texture and a different opportunity for growth, because I'm just journaling for the half hour before my child comes home from daycare with a glass of wine, the candle lit. I don't know, it's still like kind of privileged or, I don't know that it pushes me where as this kind of siding was not just on my terms, but was still accessible, if that makes sense.
[00:24:53] NV: I think I can see that. Yes. How about the physical journal itself?
[00:25:02] TG: What a beautiful journal. It's so beautiful and I love that there's like prompts and then there's area for free space, and there's illustrations. It can cater to rolled, like when I feel like it. Here's something I want to challenge you with, is a really special gift. And I know what that came with it was really touching. I actually teared up, that was just very, very, very thoughtful.
[00:25:34] NV: Thank you, Tori. Yeah, we do take being the author of your own life pretty literally, here.
[00:25:42] TG: Yes. And then deciding how – well, again, it doesn't have to be that intellectualized. What I appreciate is the spirit of it is to sort of be like in heirloom. Something to be passed down or something to be shared when the time is right, with Joy, and those that come after her, I think is a cool, very cool thing.
[00:26:05] NV: Yes. Thank you, Tori. And I think I shared the story with you that I try to find my own family story and family lineage stories from my mom and dad, and it was so hard to get that story out of them. I just wanted to know where I came from. I just don't want it to be hard for other children or families to have to struggle so much to get the stories. So, if it could be an heirloom, I think it's wonderful.
[00:26:39] TG: That's an amazing inspiration. I really appreciate that. And it resonates with me a little differently in that my family sense almost as too much that you kind of like want to do some reality testing. I can get the words out, but what's the real story? So, I think for both of those reasons, and everyone know that you were somewhere on the spectrum. This journal idea really, really fantastic.
[00:27:14] NV: What other things about your parenting that have changed from what you found?
[00:27:23] TG: The biggest thing for me is my co-parenting relationship. So, my partner and I, we've been together for 13, I think 13 years, have had a baby for just over two of them. Most of our life has been just the two of us. When we did the Destiny's Child exercise, we were both fiancés, and I think that was really telling, we can really struggle in supporting each other when one of us feels inferior, particularly if one of us feels like the other one is making us feel inferior. So, if something I said or did leads to feelings of insecurity from Chris, he's going to have a really hard time feeling backed up by me and backing me up and vice versa.
Being able to do this together, let us both in and our values and beliefs and histories that have otherwise been – even for 13 years, even when you've had deep conversations with someone, it's still was like so cognitive. I think this led us to feel something together. It's really showing up like in how we handle feeling frustrated or differences of parenting opinion or just a regular day that goes a little sour. Something about this has been really anchoring to us parenting together. I'm really glad we did it together.
[00:28:56] NV: Yes. I have not even thought about the partnership point of view. I was thinking about the caregivers and the children. So, thank you for sharing that perspective with me, Tori.
[00:29:10] TG: Even more things like the way we both shared caregiving while we were in the class, kind of reading each other's cues. It was like all the content and all the exercises and then also like how we showed up. It was all very healing. I think it was healing for us.
[00:29:26] NV: Yes. A treat for me to witness to see both of your nervous system kind of working together and your bodies resonating with one another, with Joy’s body too. It's like we can see or I can see what we're talking about taking place through the screen. It was pretty cool.
[00:29:48] TG: Oh, I'm glad you said that because that's it. That's what I'm trying to say. We were enacting what we were talking about.
[00:29:55] NV: Thank you, Tori. Such a practice, such a practice.
[00:30:00] TG: We need to have, like, a what would that thing. We need to get bracelets or something. Because if things are – we’re getting a tensor like, whenever we've said what we have to say right now or if we were on a screen, and we really handled it. So, I think it's also like a grounding memory of we can kind of take ourselves back to being in front of you and our peers and thinking if we were in that screen, how would we do this? So, thank you for that.
[00:30:31] NV: Thank you, Tori. You already know, if you ask me, I would ask you what what would you say?
[00:30:39] TG: It’s always coming back to us, either way.
[00:30:45] NV: Oh, my goodness, so much wisdom in the group. And the way that each person showed up to support other members of the group.
[00:30:54] TG: Really special chemistry that you created from the beginning.
[00:31:01] NV: Thank you, Tori. I think it's me curating it. And also, what you brought, what Chris brought, and everyone in the group.
[00:31:07] TG: It was a perfect little soup of people. The flavors were –
[00:31:13] NV: Yes, I agree. Tori, I agree. Okay, if you can complete the sentence for me. I almost didn't join the program, because –
[00:31:26] TG: I almost didn't join the program because I was feeling very self-conscious about saying something wrong, appearing wrong. Others thinking, I wasn't competent or a loving parent, or ignorant or racist. I didn't want to make a mistake. And I don't feel like I'm so harsh in my mind and others. So, why would I think others would be harsh to me? But it was like, do I have the courage to do this? I think was the question.
[00:32:03] NV: How is that part? That's self-doubt and all of that, when you joined the program?
[00:32:11] TG: After the first day, it was so mitigate – I did not did not feel that, almost immediately didn't feel it anymore. It was you saying you should do this. I trust you. You feeling like I could be a right fit or inviting my husband to drink too, I think was like, “Okay, I'm going to do it.”
[00:32:40] NV: Thank you, Tori. I hope the scale tips a little bit more towards you and you can ask your own too. We talked about hard topics, Tori. The first half of the program was all about internalized oppression, and looking at the systemic oppression and how it seeps into our parenting. But then the second half, we applied all of that to our family of origin, as you said, applying the same kind of understanding and compassion to our caregivers. Not small topics. I wonder if you can share a little bit about what got you through, what supports you to show up each week for six weeks doing this work?
[00:33:24] TG: I think the relationship, my relationship with you, your skillful facilitation. I don't want to put too much on you, though, in the sense that it's okay if – just I was afraid, so I don't mean to idealize you too much. You set such a standard for how we were going to show up. How you showed up is how then I interpreted like we were all agreeing to show up, if that makes sense. Just this respectful, like non shaming, paste.
I remember one exercise we did was particularly evocative to me. And interestingly, I think I've sort of blacked out the details of what it was. It was like an ask, though, to look back at a past experience of experience of when we were being parented. You knew to say, we're now going to take some time to just kind of be with our own bodies. You really slowed it down, whereas in other parenting, maybe like classes or groups or trainings or things, we're often asked to reflect back away. What was that? The question is, what was that like for you? And then we share back where you knew that this was going to be something that we needed sometime within our own hearts and minds before we shared forward. And then I saw that kind of come through in the rest of the group where we had silent moments. We had moments where we were just looking at each other. We had moments where we work with to share, and any of that, and all of that is okay. I think I felt that right away, even though it's a hard space, and we talked about hard things, it was going to be okay.
[00:35:16] NV: Thank you, Tori. I'm trying to teach it from my heart and have everyone contribute in a different way. So, we can kind of embody that mutuality and think we did it. And I'm so glad that we be in a different kind of relationship that capitalism has taught us, where we got to reflect right away and be productive and extract as much from the program as possible.
[00:35:44] TG: That's it. You trusted the people in the group and the group as a whole and yourself, that you didn't have to manage the space. You knew that we were going to share how we could and when we could, and that we could know, you helped us know our bodies well enough to know what we could share and when. And if it did get heavy, that we are capable of then letting it be heavy, and then kind of coming back. While it was a structured space, like where there was like, we were learning something, we were doing structured activities, it didn't feel like a managed space. There's a difference.
[00:36:24] NV: So glad, Tori, you resonated with that. Because I trust in your capacity, and as a parent, you have done difficult things, and I'm just facilitating the journey. What kind of parents would you recommend this program to and why?
[00:36:44] TG: Any parents, all parents. My wish is that it can be for any and all parents. I'm inclined to say like, parents who know they want something different than kind of the capitalist to colonize, right way of doing things, westernized parent thing. But I also wouldn't want to exclude parents who don't know that anything else exists. I would say, parents who want to learn something, want to look at themselves, want to look at each other, want to hear other perspectives, or even if you don't want to, if you're open to try.
[00:37:33] NV: Yeah. I appreciate that, Tori. And final question. They’re watching you sharing your experience story. If there's one thing that you want to say to them, or share with them, what might that be?
[00:37:52] TG: I have to project a little and say, Surely, if what you're hesitating, if the reason that you're hesitating is because you're afraid of how you’ll be accepted or received, I would say go for it. I would say don't let that be the deterrence. And this can be incredibly transformative. Going through an infant mental health certificate program, I had thought I did that a lot of that self-reflection. A lot of looking at my own parenting. A lot of healing and understanding myself. It was like, there was a hidden room in my house that I didn't know is there. I got to find and it's filled with treasures. So yeah, I mean, this is really an opportunity, just really an important opportunity.
[00:38:45] NV: Thank you, Tori. I think that's the beauty of decolonized mental health work that we're doing, where you know that what we learned at school and it works for one group of population, mostly. And there are many other ways to look at parenting and child development and being with. So grateful. I get to do this work with you and you're here sharing your experience Tori.
[00:39:15] TG: I'm so grateful. I'm really the person who needs to say a thousand times, thank you. I really appreciate this opportunity and hope that I find out that now there's a support group or there's class part two. Sign me up on whatever comes next. Time in, Lori.
[00:39:38] NV: Thank you again, Tori, for your time. Please take the best care.
[00:39:43] TG: Same to you.
[00:39:47] NV: Tori, my heart is full. I hope you're delighted in following along Tori's journey too. I get goosebumps every time we think about Tori talking about little Tori, and how she's raising little Tori and her daughter Joy, at the same time as a decolonized parent. Knowing deep in your bones, that with enough support and a ton of practice, you can choose to align your action with your intention, or align your parenting practice with your values of compassion and equity. Isn't that liberation? The kind of liberation that starts in your body.
Tori and Chris worked so hard to understand their inner children, themselves, and each other as partners and parents of their daughter, Joy. Then they extended this grace and awareness to others, as they redefined their parenting and transformed from autopilot to bold, conscious and decolonized parenting. Most of the time, of course.
If your heart, your body, and your ancestors are excited and curious about this deeply decolonized and intentionally intergenerational parenting. Let's do this work together for us, for our children, for our ancestors, and for the next generations. Please visit comebacktocare.com/learn for more information. It's comebacktocare.com/learn. As always, in solidarity and sass. Until next time, please take care.
[OUTRO]
[00:41:52] NV: Thank you so much for spending your time with me today. You can find all the resources, links and complete show notes over at comebacktocare.com/podcast. If there's something you want to check out, you could find it at comebacktocare.com/podcast.
[END]